ATL

Question time

Report puts your questions to Ed Balls, Michael Gove and David Laws. Words by Alex Tomlin

More than 3,000 ATL members responded to a survey that will form the basis of ATL's manifesto ahead of the general election. They suggested around 2,000 questions on education for the three main political parties. Report put some of those questions to Ed Balls, Michael Gove and David Laws.

The first question focused on the qualities that make a great teacher. Ed Balls, Secretary of State for the Department of Children, Schools and Families (DCSF), feels it is: "Moral purpose, believing that every child's got it in them, if only you can find that spark."

"The individual qualities of a great teacher are a love of learning combined with great subject knowledge, and the emotional intelligence to be able to develop a rapport with children from different backgrounds, ways of communicating and learning styles," says Shadow Secretary of State for Children, Schools and Families Michael Gove. "One thing needed in both politics and teaching is a sense of humour."

The Liberal Democrats' spokesman for education, David Laws, believes the qualities are: "Passion for the subject, a concern for young people and an ability and willingness to go beyond the boundary of what is reasonably expected."

ATL members also wanted to know what the three thought their personal qualifications were for running the education system. "Good question," Balls muses. "First of all, I've got kids, so I really care about how the state education system is working. Secondly, I've spent a lot of time in government, so I have some experience of how to support the delivery of curriculum and drive change, in particular to negotiate good deals when it comes to public spending."

"A sense of my own inadequacy," says Laws. "I think it's very dangerous when politicians think they know all the answers. We need an education secretary who realises the limitations of politicians and, without losing accountability, ensures that much more power is decentralised to the front line. I bring a real passion to try and challenge the gap between those at the top and bottom of the system. We've got to address that and give every child an opportunity."

"Gosh, I don't know!" is Gove's surprised response. "I think I'd rather just be judged on the quality of the arguments I make. If people think the case I make is persuasive and on the button, then that's fantastic. If they think it's wrong, I'd love to hear alternative arguments."

Gove goes on to explain how he gets that type of feedback. "I enjoy visiting schools and I always try to talk to the senior leadership team and teachers separately, and to students whenever possible, and feedback from them is the most important way I can do my job. I've benefited hugely from unions and professional associations that act as a filter for many of their members' concerns and the submissions I get from all of them, especially ATL, help me understand the problems the profession faces."

"I've been to visit lots of schools and spent many hours with teachers and headteachers, not just the trade union and association leaders," Balls explains. "I've spent many, many hours talking to school councillors. I also drop my children at school every morning and see what the parents are saying."

"Meeting those on the frontline is very refreshing because they tell it how it is and you can come back to Westminster with an understanding of how policy affects teachers," Laws reveals. "Also meeting with unions and other groups — there's a massive reservoir of knowledge. We don't always agree on everything, but I respect the insights they have and it often makes me think again about my views."

Those meetings with unions take place through the social partnership, also known as the workforce agreement monitoring group, made up of several unions, including ATL. Laws says: "One of the things that social partnership has delivered is a much greater stability between the government and the teaching profession. I'm not saying these groups should run the education system, but we would be mad not to listen to them."

"It's about the unions being directly involved in shaping aspects of policy," says Gove. "What I particularly like about ATL is that it has a voice in the education debate and one that I enjoy listening to, don't always agree with, but appreciate. The conversations I have had so far with different unions have proved helpful. I'm not prescriptive; I'm open-minded about how it could work."

Balls believes that the partnership will only continue if Labour are re-elected. "The Conservatives have made it very clear that social partnership will end, because if you essentially remove the national agreement and you give headteachers the right to hire and fire at will, without any proper process, you remove the raison d'etre of the social partnership. It then becomes every teacher for themselves. I personally think the social partnership has been vital to the reforms of the last few years."

Balls names the national agreement, PPA time and rarely cover among these successful reforms. But members asked if there were too many initiatives. "I think that's the sort of glib thing the opposition would say," is Balls' response. "I think people who work in education know that not all initiatives are for them, not all of them are good, but the vast majority are things we agreed together, things that will help us to do better in our shared goals."

Gove is interested in hearing from teachers "where the bureaucracy pinches most. The critical thing is that the people who know best about teaching are teachers. I want to know, in granular detail, what teachers find preposterous and what they would like to see changed."

"Complaints about too many initiatives are entirely justified," Laws states. "The more we legislate, the more we admit that the previous initiatives are failing. We want to set schools free. We want accountability, but intelligent accountability alongside freedom."

Laws is keen to promote his party's 'pupil premium', a proposed £2.5 billion investment targeted at schools taking on children who need more help, but also benefiting every school, with reduced class sizes and one-to-one tuition where needed.

Balls reveals: "The Treasury has guaranteed us 0.7 per cent real-terms rises for money to schools. That will be enough that, even with the rise in pupil numbers, funding per pupil will go up. Like in every spending round, it's too early to make any guarantees about every individual school, but there's no doubt that every school will have to make some tough decisions within its budgets."

Gove is working on Tory budget plans. "We are doing everything we can to ensure that the front-line services for education, particularly school spending, are protected. I'm reviewing the DCSF budget to see how we can make the appropriate savings to contribute to paying off the deficit, while at the same time ensuring that no critical service is impaired and that resources are more efficiently spent on the very poorest. As you can appreciate, that is a tough challenge, but I think we're getting there."

Another tough challenge that ATL members face is dealing with what many perceive as worsening pupil behaviour. The Liberal Democrats' Laws says: "I'm told that challenges with young people are greater than 20 or 30 years ago and the indicators support that view. Good discipline is possible in any school as long as the lead from the top is strong, the quality of teachers is strong, there are clear guidelines set, and youngsters are motivated by the curriculum."

"Some of the newspapers will tell you there's a worsening of behaviour," Balls says. "I think most people in schools have seen a lot of progress in improving behaviour. The question I asked when I arrived was whether teachers had the powers they need. We got Alan Steer to do some work for us on that and we've strengthened the law.
The conclusion I draw is that what matters more than powers now is teachers feeling they have the support of headteachers, and teachers and headteachers feeling they have the support of governors and parents in enforcing discipline."

"We need to recognise that the authority of teachers has been undermined and eroded over the last few years and we need to reverse that decline," states Gove. "The important thing is that the authority of the headteacher should be clear; that's why you need to have exclusion as a last resort and the headteacher as the final arbiter."
He adds: "We need to improve training in PGCE and ITT to ensure more time is spent with experienced teachers who can provide people with the tricks of the trade to maintain and engage the attention of students.

"Teachers also need to know that if they use any kind of physical restraint on a student, instead of having to prove they are innocent, the onus of responsibility is on the investigation to prove they are guilty," he continues. "We also think it's wrong that teachers should be subject to a confusing and overlapping number of investigations, so we think investigations should be terminated within a particular time period. We would also ensure that all teachers enjoy the right to anonymity."

Balls is less sure about anonymity. "As far as possible you want allegations not to be talked about publicly until they have been investigated, but it's naïve to say you can enforce a right to anonymity. In certain circumstances — in certain charges — you just have to suspend while you investigate, and that's bound to be inconsistent with universal anonymity."

Another issue that ATL members feel strongly about is Ofsted. "Having some independent inspectorate of schools is absolutely essential," says Laws. "Ofsted has become too unwieldy with all the child protection responsibilities. Ofsted was also criticised for being too obtrusive, now I hear that the inspections are too superficial. We would like the inspections not to be excessive in their time, but be more substantive and constructive in making recommendations."

Gove believes: "Ofsted is responsible for doing and investigating too much, so we're saying, rather than looking at 18 different criteria, it should only look at four, which relate to the quality of leadership, pupil achievement, progress pupils are making and behaviour."

"We're in a period of transition with the new inspection framework and that will settle down," says Balls. "Ofsted will always be asking itself if it can improve. I don't foresee us driving any radical changes in Ofsted's remit and responsibilities. I think it plays a very important role."

One area where the government has made changes is in school tests. "We've shown we're willing to make changes," says Balls. "Key stage 3 (KS3) SATs have gone; key stage 2 (KS2) science has gone. And we're going to publish teaching assessment alongside this year's results."

"There is a real risk that we have a desiccated education that focuses just on getting people through external tests," is Laws' verdict. "This can create distortions that don't lead to good educational practice and can demotivate good teachers."

"There's a case for moving KS2 SATs from Year 6 to Year 7 and my aim is to take seriously the concerns that teachers have about the narrowing of the experience during Year 6," says Gove. "SATs will not go, but we can improve them. All schools should have the freedom that independent schools have to offer exams such as the IGCSE and the international baccalaureate."

Balls says: "I think that to get rid of KS2 tests entirely would be a completely retrograde step, but how those results are used is very important. That's where I go back to most teachers' and headteachers' frustration — it isn't about tests, it's about league tables, and that's why I think the report card is a very important tool."

Balls describes the report card as "the biggest revolution in accountability in schools for many years. Ranking on report card outcomes will show schools that are really making progress for pupils — rather than simply having a raw attainment number — and it will be easier to understand for parents."

Laws reveals his party's view on league tables: "We think that they're not very helpful because they largely tell you about social catchment rather than the abilities of each individual school. What I'd rather see is comparisons with schools of similar social circumstances."

Gove says: "I think the current system of league tables needs to be overhauled, but I do believe in league tables — it's important that pupils, parents, the government and teachers are able to compare school with school." He believes a strength of league tables is highlighting high-performing schools in areas of deprivation, adding: "What we need is a degree of professional leadership so professionals can say what are the objective criteria by which they can be judged."

Another issue on the minds of ATL members is academies. Gove is clear on his opinion. "I'm a strong supporter of the academies programme and I think they have already demonstrated they can significantly improve education, particularly for the most disadvantaged, and I would like to see that extended. I'd like to see teaching cooperatives. What really matters about academies is that they are a way of challenging low attainment in particular parts of the country."

"Having groups who have genuine expertise in education come into the state education system, and have a passion for improving disadvantage, is a damned good thing," states Laws. "Some academies I've been to have been inspirational. But there isn't one type of school that solves all your problems; it's what you do in the school."
He adds: "However, I don't understand the justification for government granting some freedoms only to academies."

"We are expanding academies at the moment and we're aiming to get to 400," says Balls. "I think academies will only ever be a small minority of the state secondary school sector, but an important minority. I think the evidence shows that in the right circumstances they work, but they don't work in every circumstance."

Balls then describes the support staff negotiating body, now in law, as a "win for everyone. I think it will make career progression and training for support staff better, but it will also make life easier for headteachers, special educational needs coordinators (SENCOs) and other members of staff".

"I'm broadly in favour of having national pay and conditions for support staff," says Laws. "Many support staff are very poorly paid and are taking on extra responsibilities. We want a basic national guarantee for teachers and support staff, but on top of that we want schools to be able to enhance those."

"I recognise that, for thousands of people in a support role, it's often been the case that their pay and conditions have been inadequate," says Gove. "We need to be able to provide a guarantee — different from the sort of guarantee for teachers, I have to concede — that they have national thresholds through which they will not be allowed to fall."

Moving on to further education, Gove says: "I think we need to do a huge amount to bring down the barriers between schools and FE. I hope we will see a better understanding of the place that FE colleges can have in providing a vocational educational path for students. I would like to see much greater traffic between professionals in schools and colleges. We want some of the expertise of FE colleges deployed in the classroom."

"It's not realistic in some areas to expect one institution to deliver all types of education, and it's not realistic in rural areas to be bussing people backwards and forwards over long distances," says Laws. "We think there should be transferability of qualifications, staff and pupils, and proper funding of colleges, because they are still underfunded compared to schools, and that's indefensible."

When Balls was informed by Mary Bousted that FE teachers cannot work in schools as teachers recently, he asked the DCSF and the Training and Development Agency for Schools for advice on the issue. "We want to make sure that we have more collaboration between schools and colleges to deliver 14-19 reforms," he says. The DCSF reveals that proposals are in place so people with first degree equivalents who have significant experience of teaching may be eligible to gain qualified teacher status quickly via an assessment-only route.

ATL's manifesto of key education issues will be published in the next issue of Report.